Ok so base on my research and experience, if you had $5000 dollar, taking into account diminishing returns, this would be how one should allocate budget for a streaming based mid-fi system:
Speakers: 2000 (40%) Power Amp: 1000 (20%) Pre Amp with room correction capabilities: 1000 (20%) (or allocate to physical room treatment things. Everything else (20%) DAC： 500 Streamer: 200 Cables and interconnects : 200 (not much audible difference so long as not use the shittiest ones) Stands: 100
This is based on that
Speaker matters the most, then suitable amp = room acoustics/speaker placement, then perhaps quality of the DAC’s photo stage pair with a decent DAC chip, then everythig else is probably less than 5%.
I mean, we can argue all day on whether cables are snake oil, but I think for most people it is just about the most efficient resources allocation giving a budget constrain.
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Had a similiar situation. Went for the following 1 year ago: B&W 702 S2 (Demo set from a local dealer in perfect condition, therefore „just“ 2400€), Audioquest Rocket 88 (yeah I know you don’t want to read that, but was 400€), Audioquest Monsoon Source cable (170€) and a NAD C388 with build in BluOs card for streaming (1600€). Went for the C389 as it has enough power to drive the B&Ws. I am more than happy. I am not listening to vinyl or CD I am a streamer, therefore thats the perfect set for me. Will never regret that invest. :)
What the hell… Modern DACs are so good that separate in such system for streaming focused use doesn’t make sense and why so much on cables in a stereo system? I would probably buy some Genelec Ones 8331/8341 for around 4000 (80% speakers) and what ever is the best streaming preamp under 1000. 20-50 for cables?
$4.9k active speakers with built in DSP and DAC. Highly recommend Genelec and $0.1k for pro XLR cables etc
A dsp makes a huge difference… and some pro gear include one by default.
Most “audiophile” setups are not optimal as rooms are often untreated and no DSP…
3500 speakers, 1000 integrated Amp, 500 streamer
Yea, this is what I’d be shooting for.
$100 or under wiim mini. Drop the most money you can into speakers and amp at this stage. They have the most influence on sound.
I thought the rule of thumb was to spend about the same amount on the amp as on the speakers combined, to get the best price/performance ratio. Is this bs?
My gear is several years old. Prices are higher now. But my amp was $300 and pair of speakers $1300. So ~4:1 ratio on speakers to amp for me.
That would be bs
This is basically my budget for a new stereo system. The 3500 is going to bookshelf speakers and subwoofer though. I think 1000 for an integrated amp is the sweet spot. There are a lot of good options.
Genelec with glm and a $50 usb->aes connector.
Performance for $? $200 set of speakers, free amp off craigslist, $4800 in marijuana.
I kid, but I seriously doubt it’s worth dropping 1k on an amp if your speakers are 2k. Of course a good amp lasts forever so your call. I also can’t imagine spending $500 on a DAC these days, they literally all sound perfect past a certain point. It’s no longer exotic tech, a geshelli labs DAC will do just fine. You can go a little wild and do your whole signal path in balanced XLR if you want to be sure you are eliminating noise.
I won’t comment on streamers or whatever because I don’t use them, my source is usually a PC hooked up over USB or SPDIF optical.
my amp was 1200 and speakers were 900. bit of a mismatch you reckon? 😅
dsp/streamer/volume control unit and speakers i would spend 4k usd on, then get the dac’s and power amps used or on sale, easy to upgrade later.
it cost a lot to get my recommended speakers setup, 2 way speakers and dual subwoofers.Cables snake oil? Oh no my friend. Who told you that? You certainly want cables.
Snake oil makes some good cables and there cheap.
I think your breakdown is pretty reasonable, I wouldn’t change anything drastically.
At the moment you are thinking about separates, have you considered dumping the whole 5k in a pair of active streaming loudspeakers? Although I personally like my separates, usually the value proposition goes up when combining boxes.
Yes. I am in the moddle of selling my old gears and trying to figure out what to do next. All in one system will have the benefit of stop me from FOMO on cables and clean power or even DACs and all these tangential things that, depending who you talk to matters a lot or are marginally worthless.
I agree, allocation is good.
I think it’s been mentioned but definitely go for an integrated amp over amp and pre. Get one with either a pre-amp out and/or HT bypass for future upgrades. Personally I don’t like the idea of fast moving tech (DAC/streamer) being on-board, but these days might be hard to avoid.
But excellent 20 year old integrated amps go for so little these days. Recently I picked up a Musical Fidelity A3.5 for 650usd. Peanuts for how it performs.
Personally I would spend like $4000 on the speakers.
For example, you could build system with the SourcePoint 10’s, a Yamaha S-701 and a Wiim Pro would be a decent foundation to build on and in that budget. CESS Interconnects and Micca speaker cables are decent and cheap as well.
5k. And you want a seperate dac with proper phono stage an streamer?
I have this feeling that the biggest mystery to /r/audiophile users is that amps and preamps can already contain a very good DAC and phono stage. I’d focus on that, before going budget seperates.
Go with an Arcam SA30, Marantz Model 40n, Nad m10 (and probably many more) and you have an AMP, preamp, decent streamer, decent dac, great phono stage (atleast the model 40). Less clutter, less complicated operation, less failure points.
Sure, you wont get to list a million brands and products on the ASR forum threads but there you are with one remote just enjoying tunes.
Fair point. I guess the question here is for the same money so you get better sound out of 2 budget separates or 1 integrated system (whatever stage that is). I assume it’s the letter because the integrated system is engineered to work well together. Then i guess at what price point do the deltas worth having separates, and can I hear them.
It’s like my FOMO side fighting my value hunting side (less about affordability I just hate the idea of overpaying or buyjng into snake oil hype)
What about when tech changes though?
These days, it’s completely different than in the past because there are so many great products available at low prices.
Some people would be satisfied by a Buchardt or Kef all in one system and the convenience would be a major selling point.
For myself, I like so many designs so it depends on the day. I could be happy with a nice pair of Genelecs or the Philharmonic towers with Purifi woofers, I also love my GR Research speakers and consider them to have amazing sound quality, but I do use subwoofers in that setup.
As you can see, very little would go toward electronics as there really isn’t value there, there’s moreso different tuning. I would grab a power amplifier (if needed) that has great measurements so a Purifi, NCORE, etc. A $100 DAC is honestly good enough (not worth giving up speaker quality). For streaming, a WIIM is “good enough.”
For this budget, it’s not the best decision to spend on separates. After the system is ready, start with room treatment
$3000 used speakers $1500 used amp $100 Amazon all-in-one DAC preamp $400 for a nice dinner and some shoes
Buchardt A400 powered speakers include room correction. I have not heard these, but the reviewer says they cause him to doubt his choice of a ($30k?) System of separates. See link
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x17rfOZdBfM&pp=ygUKTWFya29uaGlmaQ%3D%3D