I’m sure there were high-end speakers made ingeniously and with exacting standards that warranted high prices and reverence by the community back then, but to look at tear downs of many of the speakers shown in here, I find it difficult to believe that there was really all that much justification for very high prices.
Particle board, paper cones, magnets, simple circuits. Or improved materials and gold plated contracts. Solid wood with nice wood grain stained and chrome or flat black fasteners.
Sure, R&D, scarcity of some materials, labor costs for hand made components. There’s some justification there. Some. But not all that much compared to how products are made in any industry.
Worth $300? $3000? $30,000 a pair?
Hmmm.
Times were completely different, also prototyping was fine way different. You miss a couple very important key factors here.
Before software (such as winISD) and such were prevalent available. It got done by actually building and prototyping loudspeakers. You’re missing also that because of those years “the prototype years” you enjoy what you fancy as good today.
In those days , nothing was cheaper as it is today. Pio caps at that time were way more costly than today’s polycaps. Thanks to the technological advancements we have made. I’d argue even that speakers are more overpriced now than they ever were before.
They don’t prototype anymore, it’s all done putting in thiele parameters in a software platform. And it tells them to a “t” what should be done and how. It’s no longer a real science, it’s more of a well understood process called "assembly lines productivity "
Back in the day for that era, wood veneers were a standard. Today even in "higher end echelon " speakers they use vinyl veneers . Than your particle board comment, it’s actually acoustically speaking ?! Ready for it (And you CAN SOURCE THIS INFO AT THE DIY AUDIO FORUMS INCLUDING MEASUREMENTS)
The differences in the audible realm are negligible! Particleboard was the material of the era, just as foam and textile surrounds…
So where are we with this…
Old vintage speakers or prominent proven pedigree. Hand build , and with care and the intention of enjoyment. There is a passion behind that what those guys did.
Or …
New from an assembly line, that posses 0 character and cheapest materials used TODAY…
You need to understand how much different this times were. You’re talking about an era that was pioneering in what you take from granted with the new gear out there hands down.
Footnote: marketing baloney? Back then THEY DIDN’T HAVE THE INTERNET TO PROMOTE. today, I can’t even open up my Facebook without seeing an svs or Klipsch coupon code post.
Really want to go there my guy?!
What era of speakers? Many American/European made speakers in the 60’s were well built with quality materials and the best audio science (in terms of box designs) they had available to them. Alnico magnets welded to cast frames. High sensitive speakers. Plywood box sides (often particle board backs). Nuts and bolts holding things together. Veneer thick enough you can re-sand and stain. Seals made from wool or felt that still seal, etc.
English designs (especially bookshelf size) from the 90’s were often quite good, too.
New speakers can have their advantages. I sold all my old speakers and settled on New L100 classics.
You can’t judge the sound from a picture. If you look at some vintage K&H broadcast monitors from the front, you’ll not see why they sound so unbelievably awesome. Once plugged in, you’ll realize why they still sell for thousands a piece.
Speakers have generally become smoother, more 3-dimensional and much smaller. This means that they are less dynamic on the whole and rather toy like compared to good stuff from the 60s and 70s. Unlike electronics, miniaturization is not a good thing with loudspeakers. There is no substitute for size and horsepower. Nothing much has changed with the laws of physics in the last 100 years so what it takes to make dynamic life-like sound is unchanged. There have been some advances in magnet materials and a bunch of progress in adhesives but not much else.
~Greg Timbers, JBL legend
As I sit here in awe of my new to me JBL 4311 speakers I have to agree. I’ve never heard anything remotely as good as these.
Hmmm! I’ll take a pair of antique Quads, or Bozaks or a few KLH or even the big old Polk over much of what is on the market now. And I’ll take a pair of Dayton Wright over anything on the market today under 30K.
Just curious - have you ever built your own speakers or are you looking at this topic from high atop the left peak of Mount Dunning-Kruger?
I’ll give you two guesses, and the first doesn’t count.
Particle board, paper cones, magnets, simple circuits.
So many people in this hobby that think solid wood is an improvement over MDF or Particle Board, or that the complexity of a crossover circuit has anything to do with its quality.
I spent more for my two Acoustic Research AR15’S than I did for the rest of my stereo system combined back in the early 80’s. Those things were but like a tank, and about as heavy as one too. Nothing I’ve had since then compared even close.
Same thing looking at today’s gear
I’ve built and sold retail speakers for years. There’s definitely a TON of marketing baloney. Maybe more now than back then. lol
All speaker designs are a compromise. Think about the scale of musical instruments, from human focal cords an inch or so long to grand pianos. Now think about reproducing all of those sounds using a tweeter, a mid, and a woofer. Ain’t no speaker going to be perfect. By the early seventies, amplifiers were good enough that THD and IMD were below the levels that humans could hear and frequency response was flat within fractions of a dB. Speakers became, and still are, the limitation on getting a sound you like. Speaker design is part science and part art picking the compromises you make. Speaking strictly on numbers of speakers made, most are cheaply made and of poor quality, then as well as now. The difference is that the good speakers from the past were preserved while the poor performers were discarded. Now when we look at the handful of vintage models that survived, some people say vintage speakers were better than modern speakers. The real story is some vintage speakers were better than most modern speakers and some modern speakers are better than most vintage speakers. I run new drivers in vintage cabinets so I get the best of both worlds.
LOL
Have you listened to vintage klipsch (heresy, forte, Cornwall, La Scala) or vintage tannoy (eaton, Cheviot, Arden)? The paper cones are there for a reason.
Oh, you are so right. Big dick speakers were soooo much part of the scene in the 70s, and so many were just meretricious. AR, KLH and Klipsch were real and a lot else was meh.
I have to say, one of the few types of equipment for audio reproduction which has actually improved over the years has been with speakers. Newer, lighter materials for cones and panels, in the case of electrostatic types and a more science-based approach have helped immensely I think.
I’ve not sampled all vintage speakers though, and I’m sure there were some truly great ones.