I am hearing impaired and my loss is mostly conductive (I have otosclerosis). I’ve been wearing hearing aids for the past two decades. Hearing aids are great for speech in different situations, but when it comes to music, they’re are kind of lacking.
I really enjoy music and have a few mid-fi headphones and dac/amp (DT 770 Pro, DT 900 Pro X, AirPods Max, FiiO Q3, and Dragonfly Red). I have the APO/Peace combo installed on my PC and use the Oratory 1990 references for my headphones.
Problem is… I also really need to “eq” my hearing aids, if you know what I mean. I program my hearing aids myself and I think I have crafted two pretty decent “music” programs. One with a more linear compression scheme that I use when I play my acoustic and classical guitars, and one with compression for headphones and music in general. I created two audio files based on the equal-loudness contours that I use to adjust the 24 bands of my hearing aids. Here are the 65 phons and the 85 phons files.
How can I really be sure my aided hearing is “flat”? Or as flat as possible, given the constraints of hearing aids. Is there any way, tool, app, website that could help me assess whether my music program is flat (say, compared to the ISO 226 standard)? Any tips are really appreciated.
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Do you have a stapedius plastic? If so from my experience most people have some ‘klirr’ (rattle) that increases with volume. I don’t really understand what’s your goal? Do you want to wear the headphones over your hearing aids? Not a good option because feedback control will alter gain especially in high frequencys. Also the sampling rate on hearing aids isn’t on par with hifi standards. Best if you don’t waer your aids when listening through headphones. As far as I know you can even set an different eq for each channel (left/right) on Equalizer Apo since your impairment differs quite a bit according to your fitting gains. Another option is use the direct streaming function so you won’t have too much ad conversion and signal processing. Direct streaming on phonak and Widex is quite satisfying. Just use double domes or closed otoplastics in this scenario. Carry on
Thanks for your comments and suggestions, /u/ProfessionalTune4357. Let me address your questions:
Do you have a stapedius plastic? If so from my experience most people have some ‘klirr’ (rattle) that increases with volume.
I had a stapedectomy in my right ear 25 years ago. I do have the rattle, so I assume my stapedius is not what nature designed. This is the first time I’ve heard of the cause of the “klirr”. It becomes uberable around 85 dB. Thank you for your insight; it was already worth the post :). Is there anything I can do about it?
I don’t really understand what’s your goal?
As I mentioned in a previus post, I would like to have a music program tunned to an equal-loudness courve. A flat aided hearing would help me better discern good-sounding from bad-sounding guitars. To some extent, the same goes for headphones and speakers.
Do you want to wear the headphones over your hearing aids? Not a good option because feedback control will alter gain especially in high frequencys
I do wear my headphones over my hearing aids. Alternatively, I wear my AirPods Max without them but with “hearing acommodations” ON. However, my DT 900 Pro X on top of my hearing aids sounds much better than my AirPods Max without hearing aids. It is no contest. I have crafted a music program with all the digital features I could disable switched to “OFF”. Since I have custom molds, I can also disable feedback control.
As far as I know you can even set an different eq for each channel (left/right) on Equalizer Apo since your impairment differs quite a bit according to your fitting gains
I’ve tried that, and the DT 900 Pro X on top of my hearing aids still sounds much better.
Another option is use the direct streaming function so you won’t have too much AD/DA conversion and signal processing. Direct streaming on phonak and Widex is quite satisfying. Just use double domes or closed otoplastics in this scenario
I’ve never tried that, but it is a route I’d be willing to explore. Thanks for the suggestion.
Edit: you can’t damage your hearing more through a hearing aid if your audiologist did gis job. Every hearing aid has an adjustable mpo (maximum power output) that is set to your personal limits
What I mentioned in an earlier post is that before crafting my music program, I couldn’t stand listening to music with my hearing aids on. Hence, I would usually listen to music with an earphone (no hearing aids) at louder levels than I should.
Edit2: i now saw the mpo exceeds 120 db spl on your music program. That isn’t necessary nor recommend. You might experience some compression but I advice nit going over 118 db spl. Are you wearing starkey?
Great point. I listen to my headphones at around 65 dB, though my guitars sound louder than that (around 85 dB). I am going to double check my music program. The screenshot I shared is from a simulation I did on the Phillips software. I wear Oticon More 1; they are pretty good for music.
Perhaps I could approach this question from another angle. How does one go about EQing headphones to a reference - say the Harman target?
- Rig measurements? Even if I had this option, that wouldn’t work for me. If we imagine that hearing aids are two little IEM with integrated DAC/AMP, I still wouldn’t be able to know if I am properly compensating for my hearing loss.
- Empirically, listening to music/sounds and tweaking as needed? It wouldn’t work either. I do not know if my reference (hearing aid program) is calibrated.
As I cannot rely on options 1 and 2, I’ve considered using an audio file calibrated to the Harman curve (or the 226 standard) to tune my hearing aids. I play and listen to 24 frequencies, doing my best to assess if I perceive them with equal intensity. That’s my current method, but I wonder if there’s a better way to do this or ways to improve what I am doing.
I’d suggest perusing Marshall Chasin’s articles on HAs and music.
Here’s another resource to check
And last, but not least: lots of audiophiles & musicians post here.
Thanks, /u/flashb1024. We have exchanged some messages in the hearingtracker forum. I posted this.
I also have many guitars (classical and acoustic) coming and going. I could have a music program that would EQ a particular guitar, making it sound excellent, but it might sound really bad for the next one. Hence the need to a program tunned to a equal-loudness courve. Although I think I am close to achieving my ‘flat’ music program, I am still trying to ensure that I can discern a good-sounding guitar from a bad one. From this program crafted for guitars (little to no compression), I simply add some compression back, usually following the scheme of my main program, and create another music program for my headphones.
Aha, I should have guessed it was you!!
My journey with the Mores has come to a pause, as I have found the legacy music program introduced in the OPN model, using the Velox processor, is far more natural, and less plagued by the digital processing, than the MyMusic program.
Once Oticon saw fit to d/c the legacy music program, they refused to even add it back as an option.
The VA had a Oticon rep attend an adjustment session with me, and she attempted to replicate the OPN music prgm. from my OPN S settings, but it never has ever sounded the same.
The Polaris processor MyMusic just does not achieve parity.
As you may recall from my hearingtracker posts, I linked the MyMusic
white paper wherein Oticon explains the reasoning and process they used for it.
I’ve gone to several concerts (Jazz lover), at venues with extremely well tuned acoustics, and sitting front row, center with the OPN S vs More is night and day.
You may wish to explore Widex, or Signia?
I’m of the opinion Oticon is too invested in their DNN, which is adding too many obstacles to the More & Real product that impede “Natural” sound.