So I don’t have a super high-end system by any means. I have JBL L36 speakers. They sound awesome. There is some music that sounds absolutely incredible on them. The Beatles – Abbey Road. Oscar Peterson - We Get Requests, Robag Wruhme - Thora Vukk, Lorde - The Louvre…
There is some of my favourite music however, that sounds completely non-impactful and wimpy on the speakers as well. Depeche Mode - Never Let Me Down Again, and in fact most of their catalogue. Bowie - Berlin trilogy sounds weak but it slams in my car…
I would really love to know if someone has a great system and Depeche Mode/Bowie sound fantastic on it.
Nope.
Over my long journey as an audiophile I learned that my goal for my system was that anything I played on it would be enjoyable.
It’s possible that what you are describing is a symptom of what I think of as “audiophile bass.” One of the first things many audiophiles do is to see “bloated over warm bass” as the enemy. It’s the sign of a low quality system “show room sound.” Many find, as I did, that once you start experiencing more linear, more neutral and tightly controlled bass, more tracks can sound realistic or natural - acoustic music particularly. So you chase ever lower coloration.
What can happen is that a system can sound controlled “too a fault.” Too buttoned down, too wimpy. Some audiophile systems playing Rock or Funk sound like someone too uptight to dance. Bass sort of “stays back there in the soundstage” rather than having real room feel.
I still appreciate a low distortion speaker, and right bass. But there have been times when I could opt for more “audiophile bass” in terns of keeping a tight reign on the bottom end, but I’ve instead opted for a richer sound, which gave me satisfying punch and room feel for rock, funk, electronic music, orchestral etc.
Yes, very well put! Like you I don’t consider resolution to be the be all and end all. My system makes me want to dance, that’s what I’ve always shot for.
As someone who’s also attempted to get to the “audiophile nirvana” of perfectly flat presentation, I just can’t so it.
Not only does much music lose its enjoyability (I.e. rock and dance NEED bass), an excruciatingly detailed system grossly reveals every flaw and issue with the source recording. And from experience, I can state chasing detail (especially on good recordings) can be addictive.
So, I’ve made a conscious decision to move to “musical” components over “detailed”, while also being very conscious of how well they pair with each other. So although I may not be able to hear someone farting in the studio, even bad recordings remain listenable.
Are you saying that controlling the level of bass changes the amount of detail you can hear? That doesn’t really make sense to me. Wouldn’t more bass make a fart sound louder? What does “musical” vs “detailed” mean and how do they compete?
I think the fart was a bad example. I see it as a detailed system maybe you can hear the guitarist sliding his fingers on the strings. In a more musical system that detail may be lost due to emphasized bass, but it sounds better because the bass is the heart of a rock song not those little details that get revealed on a more accurate system.
aaaaargh fuck that squeaky pedal. can never un-hear it.
Yeah I like the bass. I have two 15” subs in mine. Just never thought I was loosing anything by turning it up.
Emphasizing one frequency range always means losing in another. It’s all about relative sound levels. Have to choose what’s most important to you.
100% this. All I can add to this, is that in my experience it’s not so much about bass vs detail either (although it does play a role). There’s just music you can feel, and there are components out there that makes it easy possible. And not at the cost of detail either. Hard to describe until you hear it.
That bass breathing is such a huge thing. My JBL L46’s I use for regular listening are nice, but they don’t invoke the same emotional response as say my Epicure 20+’s. It’s bizarre, I tap my foot and react to the music the same way I do live. And the Epicures are by no means flat, especially compared to the JBLs, but there’s something about them that makes me surprised every single time I listen
Just add sub ?
Nope.
It still brings in the same issue I was getting at, which boils down to a goal of strict neutrality or not. I mean, sure you might have a loudspeaker that is so small and limited in bandwidth, that in of itself could be why it’s not satisfying with some music.
But most people own speakers that have decent bandwidth.
The thing is you can add a sub, but if you go the ‘tightly reined in for neutrality’ route, in terms of dialing back the sub, then you can end up with the same issue I described, and you may still prefer a less neutral dialing of your bass response.
I have Thiel 2.7 speakers, tower speakers that go down to 35Hz, and I tried adding an elaborate system of subs - two JL audio subs, an expensive JL Audio crossover, room correction for the bass. I ended up with a very linear sound top to bottom. And yet I found it wanting compared to my speakers without the subs, which had a bit more of a upper bass boost and just “Kicked more” with energetic music. I even had my rap-loving son do a blind comparison between subs in, subs switched out, and he preferred the energy of the speakers without the subs.
Now, all of this is ultimately subjective. Plenty of people seek, and fully enjoy totally neutral sound from top to bottom in their system. I’m just pointing out it’s maybe not for everyone, and why some people can find strict neutrality to sometimes be disappointing with genres they love.
I have a solid (in my opinion) system in my living room. Sounds just like I want it to for Pop, Americana, Folk, etc., but there are some thing that sound better in the garage. That set up is and old receiver and some big ass Kenwood speakers up on a shelf. Depends on the mood.
My garage system is cheap ass and I love it. AC/DC Who Made Who, Van Halen, early Metallica sound authentically better through my old $69 Dayton B652 Airs and a passive Optimus Radio Shack sub that are carelessly shoved on a storage rack behind tarps and tomato cages. On occasion I have grabbed a can of Miller Lite and a lawn chair and enjoyed music bliss.
Have you tried slappin’ de beasse mon, at all? 🤔
Funny you mention that. Yes.
Well, I used to. I was in a Funk tribute band and at one point we had the “Triple Bass Song,” which was three of us slapping away madly, funkily - funk on steroids :-)
We perceive rising distortion as a gauge on how loud things are. Think back to the first sound systems you remember and how when you turned things up what fell apart first, typically the bass.
So when we finally have a system that can produce sounds louder than we should listen to without distortion something sounds unfamiliar. Like we equate distortion with ‘loud’. Since our mighty fine system doesn’t distort we are left wanting that ‘Linus’ blanket’ feeling, the ‘comfort’ of distortion as a gauge of loudness.
So I’ve had to retrain my expectations with systems that do not distort meaningfully at the SPLs I enjoy, or can stand.
I needed to read this, thank you.