Question for the group here. Am currently running a Technics SL-1710 with a Denon DL-103 through an Alva Duo into a CXA81. I got the Technics on eBay, it’s very clean and works great, pitch controls are a bit fidgety but they may just need a deep cleaning.
Have been toying with the idea of getting something like a Rega P3 or Avid Ingenium, would these really be considered an upgrade, would I notice any difference? I am thinking probably not but just wanted to get the opinions of others.
I don’t have a ton to add, but maybe I can help a little. I have used both well-regarded older turntables, and high-end newer ones. They can both be excellent.
Either way, you hit pretty sharply diminishing returns once you spend more than a few hundred dollars. An SL-1710 with a Denon 103 is a pretty darn good setup. You can beat it with more modern gear, but I’d guess you’ll need to spend a lot. Probably more than $1000 on table and cart to really best what you have now.
Thank you, exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.
I agree, diminishing returns. There is a large jump between something like an LP60 and SL-17xx but to go up from there is much pricier and typically a less dramatic improvement.
Unless you know how to, and are able to check the arm bearings, and the drive system, you do not know whether the used turntable is even working at spec. A brand new table, from a reputable maker will be in-spec, and be working properly. Then you just have to match the cart to the arm for best performance as a system.
That said, people somehow seem to use the term ‘diminishing returns’ as if it means that you pay more and get less. You get more, just not directly proportionately to money spent. IOW, a new Rega P3 or an Avid Ingenium is extremely likely to be better than a properly functioning 1710, letter alone a used one in unknown condition.I am pretty familiar with these Technics, I also have an SL-1600 in my second system. Both have been fully disassembled, cleaned, re-lubed, damping fluid topped off, auto-start/return positions adjusted, RCA cables replaced, cracked strobe lens replaced, etc. so I am not too concerned about these factors. I am more interested in gains I might receive through things like better isolation of the platter, tonearm damping, the ability to adjust tonearm height for better needle alignment, etc.
I was responding to the general notion that vintage turntables can have a lot of hidden ‘damage’, that most people would not know how to detect or remedy. I hope i did not give offense-it was not my intention.
Also, the ‘old vs new’ heuristic is of limited value here. Many of the older tables were commodity items, oem-ed by a few factories for the bulk of the name-brand hi-fi companies. “We need a turntable with our brand name on it, with some shiny bits, to sell for $99”… Others were pretty good. Materials Science has improved, but so have greed and inflation…
Making sure that the table, arm and cartridge work well together, as a system is pretty important. So is set-up/alignment. Rega, for example, does not offer easy arm-heght adjsutment (just fixed-thickness shims) as thir cartridges are pretty much plug and play on their arms on their tables. Sound great too. Many tables try to sink the unwanted vibrations into their massive (usually acrylic) platters. Avid uses cork to force the enegery to travel down th arm to get sinked into the subchassis… Completely opposite strategy.
The Denon 103 is not a great choice for the Rega, but may be ok on the Avid.
First…no offense taken! I am however not sure about the notion of “hidden ‘damage’” - most of the functions of a turntable are easily observable: does the platter spin reliably at the designated speed, does the signal travel cleanly to the phono stage without distortion, does the tonearm allow the needle to track accurately across the record surface. Any anomalies with any of these things are fairly obvious.
I am familiar with commodity turntables; I have a Yamaha YP-B2 which is clearly one of these…but it just looks sooo nice! The Technics SL-1600/1700/1800 line are not of the same ilk. I think they may have have been rebadged and sold by others but they were manufactured by Technics (Panasonic) and they were flagship products in their line. Their design has stood the test of time.
Good to know about the Rega. I remain intrigued by the Avid…
The SL-1710 is as good or better than the Rega P3 assuming its bearings are good.
If you’re in the US I would not consider Rega. Their price disadvantage here is very steep (the closest matches on features and quality from other brands usually cost about 60% as much) and they lack key features for flexibility and upgradability that you should not be going without in the $1000+ bracket, like adjustable VTA and adjustable azimuth. And the VTA issue in particular will mess you up if you have any intent to use any cartridge not made by Rega (such as a Denon), because their tonearms are set up for their house cartridge height of 14mm, and pretty much all other companies’ carts are 17-18mm or so. (I believe this is true of the Rega OEM arm on the Avid as well, though I can’t find the full specs of that Avid cart.) You’d need to add a spacer to get things aligned.
If you’re in the UK… all this stuff is still true except the pricing part of it. Regas in the UK compete with other brands’ models at more like 80% of the price, not 60%.
Very helpful, thank you. Edit: I am in the U.S.
This is why I have a fluance, inexpensive and damn good.
I have a p3-24 (17 yo) and it sounds much better than the technics slb3.
Get the p3. You won’t be disappointed.