I have the Sennheiser HD600, Neumann NDH-30, Audeze LCD-X.
I use these with my SSL2 hp out, and with Qudelix 5K.
I spoke to someone about my impressions and his first question was: which dac/amp? and when I told, he just winked.
So my question is: is the difference this obvious with a more expensive dac/amp combo? Should I spend another 6-800 euro to get one? Do your headphones open up/perform that much better?
Amp’s definitely make a difference. Dacs do as well but that depends on the type of headphone in my opinion. If you have a bright headphone you probably don’t want a bright dac or vice versa. That being said once you get to a certain threshold there’s not much difference. I do think matching your gear is important. Someone buying let’s say a flagship headphone and powering it with a $100 amp /dac won’t give you the results you’re looking for. I do know r2r dacs do sound different than delta sigma dacs.
how do u kno it a dac is Brite or flagship sounding
Does the transparent makke it flagship is flat powr from flagship amp more better sound power than like tugboat amp
My X2HRs distort when plugged into my laptop. Plugging them into an amp removes this distortion.
I use DAP, so change both DAC and Amp. Fiio M17 is divine and way beyond anything cheaper I have
I use an ifi Black Label with my HD800s and the sound quality was quite noticeable coming from my LG V60. Much deeper bass and clear/crisp highs.
It depends on the headphones. If they have room for more power, then yes they will perform better. The main things that will happen is they “open up” more, and they will have more low end. Both of those typically require more power to achieve.
The Dac side also matters, but only up to a point. I noticed a big difference in clarity and dynamics going from an external Sound blaster card to a Topping E30. I have not tried anything beyond that, but I have tried other usb c dacs, Qudelix 5k, Ifi Uno, Fiio BTR, BTR 5, etc. They are all within “placebo” difference, basically you might think one is better but it is too close to really care.
The short of it is, from my experience, something in the $50-100 range is a big upgrade from your basic motherboard, laptop (except the macbook pro I had), and phone audio. Past that, it is hard to tell. A quality dac makes a difference over cheap, but that doesn’t mean you have to spend a lot. My desktop setup is the Topping E30 with a liquid Spark.
I will add this. My son got the Dakoni Blue planar magentics. They technically work off a phone, but sound shallow and dull. Zero bass. Same from his computer case running off his $400 gaming motherboard “high end” audio. I connected them to my Setup and they opened up a lot and had way more volume, but still didn’t have the bass I expcted based on reviews. My Liquid Spark puts out 1.5 watts. We changed to the Topping D30II we bought to go with these, which puts out 2 watts, and they finally had the punch and volume we were looking for. I also bumped the bass up in windows with an EQ we found. They sound amazing now, but requied a butt ton of power. Also, when i did the same thing with my liquid spark, on the harder bass hits it would trip the amp in it and turn off. It was needing more power than I could deliver. On the flip side, my Sony 1AM2s sound very good, but don’t change much between the amps or running balanced. They do open up some, but it wasn’t enough for me to care. They sound very close running off my setup or just running off an apple dac.
So really comes down to the headphones, and even then I think the amp and power needed make more difference than a dac.
Let me fix your question for you:
Do we REALLY need another post about this?
You will get a lot of different options on this.
For me, it’s split.
DAC - no, not after a certain point. they are made so well now you can get a great one for £100. I have tried more expensive ones and heard no difference.
AMPs - yes or no depending on what you want to get from it. Super clean signal - then one with sufficient power will suffice. But Tube amps or one that will colour the music, then yes - if that’s the sound you like. More so for the Tube option.
I’d say buying a DAC is more about features than it is about sound. Some features on an rme DAC for instance wouldn’t be able to cram in a $100 DAC.
As for amps I’m a bit torn. I think it really depends on your headphones more than anything. The amp on my rme sounds a bit thin comparing it back to back with my burson but it very well could be it’s not perfectly volume matched. I did a blind test and had my gf switch it and I could tell, but who knows.
I feel a bit different playing my Focal Stellia on Astell&Kern 3000 or on iFi Blu. Yes, it’s not a fair comparison as one is 200$ portable DAC/amp and one a very expensive player , but I feel the combination of better DAC chips and amplification in Astell & Kern makes it much better . I also btw feel like digital portable players are much too expensive , but it’s also much better to be able to play on the go. I quite regretted my electrostatic headphones purchase (4500$ for the Dan Clark Audio Corina, 1260$ for Stax SRM-D50 DAC/AMP ), because I can’t take it anywhere and it’s always annoying to set up .
Burson has gobs of distortion, it’s in tube amp territory. RME is the exact opposite, very clean. This could result in a perception of the clean amp being thin vs the sprays of distortion adding more body, this is after all something people tend to say about tube amps as well.
I’ve never personally noticed an issue with DACs, once you get to ~$20+ the DAC is usually not the issue. I’ve noticed noise and buzzing from interference on cheap amps though, so I second that part. I would get a nice quality amp before investing in a good DAC, they’re much more important.
You just have to reach a level of competency and avoid the utter crap. I was driving my Audeze LCD-2 with a JDS Atom and it was fine, until I started to use EQ. Then it was missing just a little bit of headroom, so I got the THX789. That was fine except for a couple quiet tracks that I had to max out volume. Then I switched to a balanced DAC, the SMSL DO100 and now everything is just peachy keen. I’m getting reference level performance and the DAC/AMP stack did not cost a lot. Only the cans were a fairly large expense, but that’s how it should be.
That 5K is something special. It’s swinging way above its price class. I’ve compared it to ifi, fiiO, Questyle, and it’s no contest. Then I compared it to my $2400 desktop setup and damn… it’s at least playing in the $1000 class in terms of quality (not in terms of power output of course). So it’s a definite “audio hack” in my opinion.
The shit people pay up for is in the “time domain”, “psychoacoustic” realm. I think the 5K has some of that magic
One of my first electronics projects was building a headphone amplifier out of some 9 volt batteries and some good-quality op-amps.
I compared the result against my $$$$ “audiophile” headphone amp and… I couldn’t tell a difference.
Since then I’ve been more interested in the best bang-for-the-buck headphones/amps/dacs and not the fanciest ones, and that’s served me well.
When I jumped from motherboard sound card to FIIO K5 Pro on HD58x sound quality improved like 20%. But when I jumped from FIIO to topping A90&D90 on HD800s it got only slightly better.
If I could make decision second time I wouldn’t upgrade AMPDAC.
If you stay at the same price range you won’t hear any difference, you really have to spend a ton of money to hear a difference and even then it is subtle but it is there.
I saw a Youtuber with a Hifiman EF400…and Hifiman edition xs…so i bought them, along with focal celestee. They said a amp/dac is good for your headphones. So I just did what they said and they seemed right.
As long as a DAC is decent it will be okay.
However, the AMP has a ton of more influence.
I just got my first Tube AMP and am Blown away by the sound Difference.
I have highly attuned hearing, according to tests, but to me its an unmistakable difference
as long as your headphones are loud enough and the amp has low distortion at loud volumes and doesn’t colour the sound, that’s all you need. the cheaper you can get that with the features inputs/outputs you want, the better. people chase synergy between amps and headphones, but unless one amp is colouring the sound, it’s just a placebo.
People like fancy expensive things, and so they convince themselves its worth it. But if they did a blind test between an expensive and a cheap one, I doubt they would hear a difference or guess the more expensive one correctly and consistently.
Now, let’s say you can guess correctly consistently, I’d have to argue the difference you are hearing would be hard to notice without trying so is the 1000 or more amp really worth the premium over a 200 one, in this scenario where you struggle to hear a difference?
And if you are someone who has magical ears and finds it super quick and easy to notice the difference between the cheap and expensive amp then I kinda feel bad for you, as you will probably have to waste more money, chasing sound.